Friday, October 7, 2011

First Reading Response, Yelena

I too was surprised that Rogozhin is short. Probably because “бодливой корове Бог рог не дает” [A curst cow has short horns] He certainly comes across as an explosive, impulsive individual, who would be prone to picking fights, doing crazy things, falling in love madly, going into a drinking binge, etc. This was very well noticed by Myshkin – his comment “if he marries her, he would probably kill her in a week” reflects this observation. Yet, Rogozhin seems sincere, straightforward (a bit too much, to the point of being non-delicate, “бесцеремонный” [unceremonious], and “небрежный” [careless]. Did I like him? So far – NO. The idea of giving a gift to a woman by virtue of stealing money from his father does not appeal to me, although this seemed appropriate and almost “admirable” in the eyes of NF (!?)

Prince Myshkin is very different from everybody so far described. He is an “open soul” and “pure charm.” He presents himself as a very sweet and honest person, to the point that he is perceived as “such a simpleton, who lacks ambition” by the kamerdiener at General Epanchin’s house. I see the effort which Dostoyevsky puts into portraying Myshkin as a “лучик света в темном царстве” [a ray of light in a kingdom of darkness] but personally I am alarmed just a bit that he has that “простота, которая хуже воровства” [simplicity that is worse than theft] which goes along the lines of the joke “may I have a glass of water because I am so hungry that I have nowhere to live.” To explain my train of thought: he adamantly denies any “корысть” in his visit, stating that he is too proud to ask for anything; however, he leaves the General’s house with 25 rubles in the pocket, place to move into and prospects for work. Good job, real skilful manipulation of the situation, so insidious that the giver would not even realize that they gave.

Anya, to your comment of knowing so many scripts – this actually fascinated me very much. Great description of typology, character of each script. I loved that part. FYI – it is a known fact that epileptics are very capable of doing a very tedious and monotonous work very scrupulously. Goes along well with his illness.

NF is so far a mystery. No comments. She has not said a word yet. All information about her is nebulous through stories told by other people or the author. Will wait! (I expect that she will show her “teeth” again).

Epanchin Girls – I agree with Anya that description of their beauty seriously deviates from “classical” feminine frame. It would probably fit the description of a contemporary emancipated healthy working female who goes to the gym three times a week for 1.5 hour workout J Except for sleeping late, oops…. I liked their artistic traits and reading. Funny, after having read about their parents, I wonder – who did they take after?!

The General, so far seems to me as a positive, hard working old man. Too bad that poor thing seems to be getting himself in trouble by falling for NF> We will see!

Can’t wait to read more! To my shame I have never read IDIOT before. But remember form my childhood that the IDIOT was referred to as a book which was “impossible” to read.

First reading response, Anya


Cheers to the first reading response!

[It turned out kind of long. Please don’t get scared, it’s only to start things off. I won’t go into as broad a response every time. Also, the whole “Laughter” part is just a list of quotes, no analysis for now. I’m just keeping it for myself].

I underlined way too much as I read, it would take too long to go into all the little themes and subthemes, so I will try to organize my thoughts into several trends: character development, curious details, and my pet subject—laughter.

-          Character development
Rogozhin: What struck me is that Rogozhin is described as short. Having read the novel before (no spoilers coming), I have to say I am surprised by this. I definitely have a hard time envisioning him as short. Why does the author do that to him? My association with short guys is (I hope I do not offend) often insecurity and a desire to prove themselves. He also has small and grey eyes… mousy, perhaps? Though full of fire. I don’t say mousy for no reason… I’m going to try following parallels between these two strangers on the train as the novel develops. For now I’ll keep it down for fear of spoilers.

Prince Myshkin: Curiously, Myshkin is described as the physical opposite of his train neighbor. I wonder what this look in his eye is from which you can immediately guess epilepsy. I’ve never seen it. Tsk tsk. Did you guys know that Dostoyevsky himself suffered from epilepsy? I’m ashamed to say I somehow missed this fact until this summer (and I call myself a Russian lit major!). I’m not sure how clinically accurate his description of epilepsy is, maybe someone would like to write about than when we have more details.

The first utterance Myshkin makes already foils his interlocutor’s [собеседник’s] expectations. Rogozhin asks him sarcastically, but Myshkin responds openly and readily. This seems to be his trump card in many conversations: foiling people’s negative expectations.

People start giving Myshkin characteristics pretty early on. Lebedev says that he is “простодушны и искренны, а сие похвально!” (simple and sincere, which is praiseworthy). This will be a trend—people giving him characteristics. What about his personality makes that happen?

Curious that when Rogozhin tells Myshkin that he loves him (when the train arrives in the station), Myshkin is not totally gushing in response, but speaks to him politely… almost coolly? He “politely” offered his hand and “amiably” said… that he also liked him very much. Definitely missing Rogozhin’s impulsiveness and passion. Right?

When Myshkin meets Gen. Epanchin, he tells him that he thought, “"Это почти родственники, начну с них; может быть, мы друг другу и пригодимся, они мне, я им, -- если они люди хорошие". А я слышал, что вы люди хорошие.” [They are practically relatives and we may find each other useful, if they are good people. And he heard that they are good people.] This sounds like flattery to me!!! What is the fine line between open-heartedness, simplicity, straightforwardness… and flattery? Is the Prince playing dumb, but is actually very clever? Is he really all that pleasant? How come people just can’t help liking him?

A little later he says that he would not stay at the General’s even if he received an invitation, because it is not in his character “а так... по характеру.” Implying that he has… a character. Not just meekness.

Look at his other words soon after: first he readily gets up to leave, saying that he expected that the meeting would come to nothing, and maybe it is for the best. He says all of this with such a gentle expression on his face and such a genuine smile that the General can’t help but ask him to stay. As soon as that happens, Myshkin readily puts down his hat, and says that he figured Lizaveta Prokofyevna would like to meet him. S o w h a t  e x a c t l y  d i d  h e  f i g u r e  o n? Why does he change his tune in a heartbeat? Wily like a snake, that’s my impression right now.

I was in this mood when I read the calligraphy passage for the second time in recent memory. My first “aha! moment” is described below under “curious details,” but my second “aha! moment” has to do with what Myshkin’s description of the various scripts may say about his personality. His ability to perfectly mimic these various scripts, and even assign personalities to them and describe them in the minutes details… is kind of unnerving. Is he a perfect chameleon? Can he read people like he reads their handwriting? Perhaps he is an acute psychologist, that’s all. Certainly not something you would expect from a self-described “idiot.”

Lebedev: Who is this character? He is a buffoon, but is there more to him? Can Dostoyevsky’s work contain a purely flat character, I wonder?

General Epanchin: Upon first meeting him, he is described as clever, maybe even cunning. A lot of his “sincere” actions are calculated, he likes to appear “even Russian and warm-hearted.” But as the chapter progresses… he doesn’t look so bad. He loves his wife and his daughters. He seems to have sincere and fair reactions in his conversation with Ganya. He likes the Prince (even though he wants to use him as a distraction for his family, but still). So far, despite the narrator’s jabs at him, I like him.

Lizaveta Prokofyevna: For now, she is described as having had neither education nor beauty when she was young, and as getting capricious and impatient with age, and even becoming something of a чудачка… except something tells me that in Dostoyevsky’s book, being a чудачка is not a bad thing. Curious for later. The narrator is prickly in his descriptions of both her and her husband, and their daughters (see below). But he is not prickly in his description of Totsky (also see below). But the Epanchin family seems to be a good, wholesome one, with plenty of love among the family members. Perhaps a certain kind of prickliness from this narrator is a sign of affection, then?

Epanchin girls: “Но были и недоброжелатели. С ужасом говорилось о том, сколько книг они прочитали.” Hah! AlsoВсе три девицы Епанчины были барышни здоровые, цветущие, рослые, с удивительными плечами, с мощною грудью, с сильными, почти как у мужчин, руками, и, конечно вследствие своей силы и здоровья, любили иногда хорошо покушать, чего вовсе и не желали скрывать.” [First line of Chapter IV, Part I] Is this really a description of beauty?  The powerful breasts and hands almost like men’s… not really what we consider the standard of feminine beauty. And the appetites! Not typical for Russian literature ideals of the feminine (unless they Tolstoy’s peasant girls, I’d say). Why is the narrator making fun of them? It’s funny, they are models of socialist realism beauty :o) Also, they wake up at 10am. Tolstoy would so disapprove :P

The Narrator’s comical (mocking?) description of them really contrasts to the almost passionate description of the fragile and stunning NF. I wonder who the author is more in love with.

Gavrila Ardalionych Ivolgin, Ganya: Clearly unpleasant in my book. Beautiful, but with a cruel smile. I wonder what light Ganya’s beauty sheds on Dostoyevsky’s general feelings about physical beauty (ok, I gotta admit, I heard this in Meerson’s class ;-). Also, when he talks about how he treats his father and how he likes to keep his household in check: bleh. I think he is a negative character forever now. In my eyes, at least. Can you recover from an introduction like that one? But again, can a character be flat in a Dostoyevsky work…

Totsky: When we hear the story of Totsky and NF, the narrator gives us one clue that he is about to launch into this story from the POV of Totsky. At the very start he says “As Totsky himself would say.” And then the whole sad story of NF’s life is told from Totsky’s point of view. I guess to give the reader a glimpse of Totsky’s worldview. Which, I would say, is repulsive. I could go into the little details, but it looks like my response is already 5 pages long. But just one example: “Себя, свой покой и комфорт он любил и ценил более всего на свете, как и следовало в высшей степени порядочному человеку.” [He loved himself and his comfort above all things in the world, as befits an extremely decent man.] *Shudder*

Nastasiya Filippovna: Sounds like an unpredictable, proud, passionate, impulsive, tormented, confused girl. What Totsky did to her, and the way it’s described in his приятный и изящный [pleasant and elegant] style, is awful.

One of her main things is her beauty, of course. Myshkin characterizes her pretty well when he looks at her portrait and tells his impression to Ganya.

-          Curious details
o   The novel opens with the words “end of November.” I recently had a gtalk chat with a friend from Russia about the symbolism of autumn. Pretty much, it is not a positive thing. It is the season of withering, the preparation for the death of winter. The opening of the novel is clearly dreary. How come? What is it setting the stage for? It was so damp and foggy that the sunrise barely happened…
o   The narrator is shifty, he sometimes switches and speaks from various people’s perspectives. Or he might throw in something like “как сказал бы современный мыслитель” (as a modern thinker might say). What modern thinker? Why are we given the opinion of this modern thinker, why do we care? Are we going to keep getting things from the point of view [POV] of a modern thinker in the future? My guess is the narrator is toying with us, having fun, poking fun at modern thinkers… whoever they may be.
o   When I was reading this time, Myshkin’s description of his love for calligraphy made me think of Gogol’s Akakiy Akakievich from The Overcoat. There are parallels, I think, maybe even very telling ones. Allow me to post this long quote from The Overcoat:
"Оставьте меня, зачем вы меня обижаете?" И что-то странное заключалось в словах и в голосе, с каким они были произнесены.  В нем слышалось что-то такое преклоняющее на жалость, что один молодой человек, недавно определившийся, который, по примеру других, позволил было себе  посмеяться над ним, вдруг остановился, как будто пронзенный, и с тех пор как будто все переменилось перед ним и показалось в другом  виде. Какая-то неестественная сила оттолкнула его от товарищей, с которыми он познакомился, приняв их за приличных, светских людей. И долго потом, среди самых веселых минут, представлялся ему низенький чиновник с лысинкою на лбу, с своими проникающими словами: "Оставьте меня, зачем вы меня обижаете?" -  и  в этих проникающих словах эвенели другие слова: "Я брат твой".  И закрывал себя рукою бедный молодой человек, и много раз содрогался он потом на веку своем, видя, как много в человеке бесчеловечья, как много скрыто свирепой грубости в утонченной, образованной светскости, и, боже! даже в том человеке, которого свет признает благородным и честным…

For English speakers, this is the quote when A.A. says “Leave me, why do you insult/make fun of me?” It’s one of the most famous passages in the work.

My God. I LOVE GOGOL!!! There will be quite a range of polemics with Gogol in this work, I think it’s a major thing for Dostoyevsky.


-          Laughter (for now I will just keep an ongoing list of its occurrences, maybe I’ll do something with it later if it remains interesting) [For the sake of quickness, I’m going to skip translating quotes unless they are essential to my point, despite my own instructions. If you’d like to know where it’s from, ask me or google translate. Sorry :-/]
o   Rogozhin and Lebedev laugh at Myshkin on the train. At one point Myshkin joins their laughter while they are laughing at him: “Узелок ваш все-таки имеет некоторое значение, -- продолжал чиновник, когда нахохотались досыта (замечательно, что и сам обладатель узелка начал наконец смеяться, глядя на них, что увеличило их веселость)”
o   Rogozhin on the train is “Он был как-то рассеян, что-то очень рассеян, чуть ли не встревожен, даже становился как-то странен: иной раз слушал и не слушал, глядел и не глядел, смеялся и подчас сам не знал и не понимал, чему смеялся.” 
o   Myshkins first impression of Ganya: "Он, должно быть, когда один, совсем не так смотрит и, может быть, никогда не смеется", -- почувствовалось как-то князю.
o   -- То, стало быть, вставать и уходить? -- приподнялся князь, как-то даже весело рассмеявшись, несмотря на всю видимую затруднительность своих обстоятельств.
o   Взгляд князя был до того ласков в эту минуту, а улыбка его до того без всякого оттенка хотя бы какого-нибудь затаенного неприязненного ощущения, что генерал вдруг остановился и как-то вдруг другим образом посмотрел на своего гостя; вся перемена взгляда совершилась в одно мгновение.
o   -- Удивительно, -- сказал Ганя, -- и даже с сознанием своего назначения, -- прибавил он, смеясь насмешливо .   -- Смейся, смейся, а ведь тут карьера, -- сказал генерал
o   NF: “Не только не было заметно в ней хотя бы малейшего появления прежней насмешки, прежней вражды и ненависти, прежнего хохоту, от которого, при одном воспоминании, до сих пор проходил холод по спине Тоцкого, но, напротив, она как будто обрадовалась тому, что может наконец поговорить с кем-нибудь откровенно и по-дружески. Она призналась, что сама давно желала спросить дружеского совета, что мешала только гордость, но что теперь, когда лед разбит, ничего и не могло быть лучше. Сначала с грустною улыбкой, а потом весело и резво рассмеявшись, она призналась, что прежней бури во всяком случае и быть не могло […]”



Thursday, October 6, 2011

Dear all,

Here are the discussion questions (reduced in number and a little edited) I got from Professor Meerson; these are notes for her first class. I believe the class (which covers most of Dostoyevsky's major works in one semester) spends about two weeks on the book. These notes cover about 2/3 of Part I.

You do not have to answer all (or any) of the questions in your posts, of course. They are only here to guide your thinking, maybe suggest some aspects of novel to consider as you read.

She also suggested that the first thing to discuss, **especially those who haven't read the novel yet** :

- What do you make of the title? What expectations does it form for the book?


~*~*~*~*~*~

And now, the questions themselves.


Is laughter good or bad? Depending on what? [Anya's note: this will probably be the theme I will trace throughout the work]

What do you make of the fact that ALL exposition [on the train] is given to us through the prism of Lebedev? 

What is love in this novel?  How is Rogozhin’s love for Nastasiya Filippovna [NF] described?

What role does money play in the novel, so far? The earrings: NF values them because Rogozhin suffered for them so much. Nota Bene [NB]: Myshkin loves the diamond earrings story!  NF’s attitude to money =? Every person in this episode is characterized by their attitude to money. And later, in Ch.3, for ex., on top of p. 28, also the General and Ganya are characterized by their attitude to what they construe as NF’s attitude, to money!  

Un/reliable Narrator: Is the narrator reliable here? Is he, concerning the description of Mme. Epanchina?

In the third long paragraph of Chapter 2, count up all the uses of words designating rumors, esp. with impersonal or passive constructions, as well as purely nominal subjects – e.g., “it was known,” “one knew,” “almost nobody had known for many years,” “it was mentioned,” “one said,” “one talked,” “everyone knew”. What is the point of this tone? Also, what other narrative genre, besides (or even instead) of a novelistic exposition does the description in this paragraph resemble? What is the meaning of Gen. Epanchin’s being “an experienced spouse and an agile father”?  

How is the history of Totsky and NF narrated to us? Totsky himself calls it “a complex and problematic ‘case’.”

All of Nastasya’s “unexpected” and “shocking,” “new” nature is described as shocking and unexpected to Totsky. Why is the narrator “siding” with him here?

P.1, Chapter 3: Prince Myshkin is interrupted, by Gen. Epanchin, for the first time. Later on, this will happen again. What is he trying to say? Why does no one listen to him? Why does it matter that they do not?

Who, and when/where, first calls Myshkin “an idiot”?

Myshkin is great at calligraphy.  Any symbolism to that?

NF’s portrait—the beginning of a whole series of significant pictures. We see her through Myshkin’s eyes.  What is Dost.’s view of beauty? 

Start tracing the role of portraits and paintings, as well as potential paintings (ekphrasis: paintings described or planned in words) in the novel.


~*~*~*~

Wednesday, October 5, 2011

Reading Schedule, Part I

Fellow Readers,

Here is the reading schedule for Part I, which sets the stage for the rest of the book. If you would like, please feel free to read ahead. But for discussion, concentrate on the scheduled segment. The idea is to finish reading and writing up your thoughts by the suggested date. I will try to post some discussion questions (which I hope to get from Professor Meerson, and maybe Spark Notes or something like that) ahead of time. Also, if you come up with discussion questions of your own, feel free to post them for the group to consider (or send them to me, and I will include them in the general dQ list).

Without further ado, let the reading begin!

By Monday, October 10th: read through section IV of Part I (~60 pgs).

By Monday, October 17th: read through section X of Part I (~60 pgs).

By Monday, October 24th: read through the end of Part I (~75 pgs).

Cheers!




Setting the Stage

Dear Friends,

Welcome to the Virtual Book Club, The Idiot edition :)

As I was discussing the idea of a virtual book club with friends, more than one person said that it would pale in comparison to a real-life meeting and discussion. In order to address this concern, I would like to explain why I am curious to try out this format.

I have always found that writing down my thoughts helps me to formulate them better. In writing, I can take time to express every aspect of my idea, I can go back and re-read (and edit) my thoughts, and I can refer to them later (essential for someone with a poor memory like mine).

Of course, there is the danger that posting online responses to reading will turn into something like a mandatory Blackboard discussion for literature class, and those are rarely very fun. (Ahem. Sorry, dear Professors :) But that's a risk I'm willing to take. Everyone joined this group voluntarily, which hopefully means that you are eager to read, think, and write. And there is no obligation to post every day, or respond to every question.

Which brings me to the general set up of things.

1. I propose that we start with the book and nothing else, so no critical articles for now. For example, I glanced at some articles and found out that Dostoyevsky apparently had several versions of the main hero in his drafts, with very different character traits from the final Prince Myshkin. This is fascinating, but... the final book is its own universe. I think it would be better to enter it and live in it for a while without distractions. Let's judge the characters based on textual evidence, let's get to know them personally. Let's see what we pick up and what themes we develop before going out to look for critical articles. But, at some point, I would love to bring in the critical articles. Maybe when we are over half-way through the reading?

2. No spoilers. Not everyone has read this book yet, and I want to discuss the plot and characters as they develop. Some of you may want to read ahead, maybe even finish the whole book, and then return to the paced discussion. This is what I will be doing, since I just finished the book. It is probably even more fascinating to do it this way, because you can really devote your attention to things that caught your eye at first reading, but which you didn't have the patience to analyze because you wanted to see what happens next. Still, do not spoil the experience for those who are reading for the first time.

3. Logistics:

a) Entries. I think what I will do is make everyone in the core group an author of the blog, so we can all add entries. You have the option of writing an entry of your own, or commenting on someone else's entry. I will try to post entries with discussion questions too. (Also, I just realized how easy it is to edit an entry. Let's agree that each person edits only his/her own entries).

b) Members. Membership will be flexible. We will start out with a core group and see how it goes. If someone wants to join later, he/she can either participate through comments, or request to be made an author. If someone decides he/she no longer wants to/is able to participate, that is fine too. There is no requirement to discuss every chapter, or to write a certain number of entries.

c) Reading schedule. I will post an entry with a tentative reading schedule, and we could discuss it.

d) Language. Let's read in whatever language you prefer, but discuss in English. For quotes... we could use both, but clearly identify where the quote comes from and what it refers to, so an English speaker could find the relevant passage too.

e) Meetings. If things go well and there is interest, we could have some real meet ups too. We could even watch the movie at the end. Why not? :)


~*~*~*~*~*~*~

I think I will end here for now. I hope to see plenty of long posts in this discussion, but I don't want to completely overwhelm you with the first one ;-)